ABOUT FULBRIGHT

My Fulbright Life

Transcript For: Elizabeth Nugent, Fulbrighter to Egypt, 2007.

Current Fulbrighter, Elizabeth Nugent, discusses her Fulbright experience in Egypt.

My Fulbright Life: Elizabeth Nugent, Egypt

Lee:                  Hello and welcome to My Fulbright Life. I’m your host Lee Rivers, and joining me today is Elizabeth Nugent. Elizabeth conducted her research back in 2007-2008 and she was studying in Egypt. Thanks for joining us today, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth:          Hi, thank you for having me.

Lee:                  So, Elizabeth, just get us going with telling us where in Egypt you were doing your research and a little bit about your project.

Elizabeth:          I spent the year in Cairo, Egypt, the capital of the country, and my project was, I think the official title was “Arabic Language and Application.” I was a student at AUC – the American University in Cairo – for the year. I spent 9 months in the Arabic Language Institute doing intensive Arabic and 3 months in the Center for Arab Study Abroad, the CASA Program run by the University of Texas. I also applied to do some formal NGO work and for 6 months worked with Save the Children in their Cairo-Al Minya office. And then I spent 6 months working with the Ibn Khaldon Center which is roughly the equivalent of a U.S. think tank and they were working on some democracy development programs.

Lee:                  Fantastic. Well, could you speak a little bit about both of those programs?

Elizabeth:          Absolutely. I originally applied to go over and do Save the Children because I was interested in… basically how NGOs could operate in Egypt. If you know anything about Egypt, the government is pretty… you know, they crack down on a lot of political activity, but the NGO work, where people are working in healthcare and education is a little bit more free. So Save the Children’s main office is in Minya governorate. It’s about, I guess it’s about 2 hours outside of Cairo and they’ve been in Minya for 25 years and some of their most successful programs have been for teenage girls who are out of school. And so, I actually had the opportunity to go to the village and meet with some of the local community leaders. It was really a fascinating program. Basically, Save the Children is so successful because they are able to take their development models and use local community leaders to get everything off the ground and to keep it going and in Minya they’ve been successful for 25 years. It was really an interesting experience.

                        And then, with the Ibn Khaldon Center I was actually doing some translation for the director, translating some of his op-eds from Arabic into English. And that was fascinating because if you read anything about Egypt in the news, it’s all about democratization in Egypt and this was actually an example of that—how a moderate left group was really working to hold the government accountable, work with the United States in terms of some development projects, and so it was really interesting.

Lee:                  That’s really cool. And so, you mentioned that you were doing some translating, you also said some thing about taking a language class beforehand. Speak a little bit about that.

Elizabeth:          Yes. OK. I graduated from Georgetown in 2007, just a couple months before I started my Fulbright and I was an Arabic major at Georgetown. But if you’ve studied Arabic in the United States you know that most of the time, they teach Fushaa, which is formal Arabic. And so, my goal was to go and learn the Egyptian dialect, which is one of the most widely recognized in the Middle East because of films, actually. Many films are made in Egypt and so people understand it everywhere. So, that was the language part of it. I was spending 5 or 6 hours a day in intensive language courses at AUC There were a number of Fulbrighters who were actually doing it too. It seems that Egypt is a pretty popular place to go if you’re just doing a language grant. And the translating was really fun, so. That was just kind of a bonus I guess.

Lee:                  And so, going into the country, what would you say your level of proficiency was with the Arabic language?

Elizabeth:          Well, as a major, I had to take 4 years of it at my university, and so, I was prepared to go and maybe have a little bit of difficulty understanding the dialect, but I actually swam in college. I was on the swim team and so I couldn’t take a whole year or a semester off to go abroad. I spent a summer in Egypt but I didn’t really get a grasp of the dialect. So when I went back, I thought, ok, I’ve studied this for 4 years, I can read books in Arabic, this’ll be fine. But the Egyptian dialect, it’s beautiful in some ways and it’s frustrating in other ways. You know, there’s different ways to negate, there’re different pronunciations, there’s even a letter that sounds completely different. The “ja” in Arabic turns to a “ga” and so you think all of a sudden it’s almost a different language. But after a couple months and after a couple classes- I mean, now I can’t speak Arabic without throwing in some of the Egyptian accents, which if I meet a speaker from a different country, they kind of laugh and they say, “Oh, you must have studied in Egypt.”

Lee:                  Right, right. That’s really cool and the only real way to learn the language is to be immersed in it as you’ve done.

Elizabeth:          Absolutely and I really enjoyed studying Arabic as an undergraduate, but one of the flaws of the system is that they can’t really teach dialect. It’s important to know Modern Standard Arabic because that’s what everything was written in, the newspapers, and books. Everything’s written like that and the news stations broadcast in Modern Standard Arabic, but the problem is that nobody on the streets speaks that. So it’s important to have them both and I’m jealous of people that are able to study abroad as undergraduates, I unfortunately couldn’t as an athlete, but the Fulbright gave me the opportunity to finally go abroad and spend a full year really getting into the language, speaking with real speakers of the language.

Lee:                  So talk to me a little bit about what a typical day was like for you. If we were to walk around with you for a day, who would you interact with, where would you go, what types of food would you eat? Walk us in your shoes.

Elizabeth:          OK. I lived for the year when I was in Cairo in Zamalek which is an island in the Middle of the Nile. It’s between downtown and other suburbs. So, I would get up- I can’t really remember what time- get up and spend probably from 9 to 3 every day at the American University, which unfortunately used to be down town in xxxx, you know right near all the hubbub of Cairo and they’ve now moved it out to the outskirts. So, if you go to AUC it’ll be a little bit different. Basically I would spend 9 – 3 there doing a lot of Arabic. Some of it was Egyptian, some of it was Modern Standard Arabic, some of it was media, some of it was literature. And then about 3, when it’s almost 110 degrees in Egypt, I’d get on the metro system and either go out to Save the Children in – well if I was going to Save the Children I would walk. It was just down xxx Road and in Garden City and that was always an experience. There were always lots of people out, lots of traffic of course. And if I was going to the Ibn Khaldon Center I would take the Metro or an old taxi up and spend my afternoons doing some translation or doing some program development work.

Lee:                  And so, you said that there were other Fulbrighters in that area. Did you spend your downtime with them? Or, what sorts of activities did you do in your downtime?

Elizabeth:          I actually lived with 2 Fulbrighters. I lived with Pauline Lewis who was doing some research on women’s leadership in Egypt and I lived with Sammy Rose who was also doing a language grant, and she’s still there. All of us were able to take advantage of the Critical Language Enhancement Award and so we were all able to extend our time which was just a great opportunity. Unfortunately we spent a lot of time doing homework, but when we weren’t doing that we explored the city and it’s such a fascinating city. I think officially there’s either 18 or 20 million people and who knows how many more people on top of that. But we really loved going to some of the souks, some of the markets, specifically Khan El Khalili, which was just a fun place to go. It was always overwhelming, but they have, you know, the more touristy section where they sell lots of trinkets and lots of Egyptian made goods but if you got further back in there, there was a coffee market, there’s a tent makers market. We all loved this book binder’s store which was right behind xxxx Mosque and I think everyone I got presents for I got them from this little shop. And when you walked in they were actually binding the books and if you wanted your name in Arabic they would heat up- I guess a brander is what you’d call it- they’d brand the book and it was just this great arts and crafts market basically. We also, every once and a while when Cairo got too hot and too crowded, we would take a felucca ride around the Nile. There are these men that have their boat for rent and you just pay for an hour or two, bring food and drinks on, and it was just a nice escape from Egypt every once and a while.

Lee:                  That sounds extremely relaxing.

Elizabeth:          Yeah, it was great.

Lee:                  You spoke about the Critical Language Enhancement Award. Was there anything extra that you needed to do in order to get that? I know there’s a lot of students out there who are interested in applying for that.

Elizabeth:          Yeah, I actually missed the deadline the first time around. As soon as we received our letters telling us we were part of the program, we were immediately in contact with Jermaine Jones at IIE and a representative from the country and so when they first sent the email out, I wasn’t sure what my plans were for after my Fulbright so I didn’t want to apply. My Fulbright was for 9 months and the Critical Language Enhancement Award would have extended it by 3 months and I wasn’t sure what I was doing and so later on in the program they actually said, Why don’t you apply. And we were able to apply once we were in Egypt. So they gave us the opportunity to extend our time once we were there. I know that basically we got the information from IIE, from Jermaine Jones.

Lee:                  Excellent. And, just to piggyback on a few things you just mentioned there, Elizabeth, concerning the Critical Language Enhancement Award. This award extends grant periods for 3 to 6 months for our Fulbrighters, and just provides them with the opportunity to improve their language abilities and just better engage once they arrive in their host country. For more information on this, please do check out our website.

                        Elizabeth, talk about some of the challenges that you faced while you were in Egypt and how you overcame those.

Elizabeth:          One of the biggest challenges was definitely what I said before about the language, just learning how to translate my very formal Arabic into an understandable Arabic. Another challenge that I faced, and it was different between me and my female colleagues then it was with our male colleagues, there was a little bit more of an awareness that we were women, uncovered and walking around on the street. I never felt like I was in danger, but there was definitely an adjustment to living in a conservative society. And as long as you respected the rules, as long as you wore the appropriate clothing, you were never really out of place but there was always just… I’ve never really thought of the way I dress in the United States as possibly threatening me, or putting myself in danger. So that was adjustment.

Lee:                  What about skills that you’ve learned that you’ve been able to apply since you’ve been back here in the states?

Elizabeth:          Well, this actually fit in with what I am hoping to do down the road. As soon as I got back, literally, almost 2 weeks after I got back, I started in a masters program back at Georgetown. Right now I am in the Arab Studies program at Georgetown and it’s basically an area studies program, that combines politics, language, culture, history, gender studies into a 2 year masters program, so having studied abroad, I now have on the ground experience, but I also have the language ability to really make leaps and bounds in my studies. This past semester I was able—because of the Fulbright, honestly, my language improved so much over the year, despite what I already knew—  that I was able to take an Islamic political thought course and all the reading was in Arabic, the whole discussion was in Arabic and a year before the Fulbright, there’s no way I would have been able to handle some of these complex thoughts in Arabic.

                        In addition, I think- I’ve always been interested in the Middle East, but being in Egypt, especially over the last year, was just fascinating in terms of politics. When I was there, there were 2 planned strikes. It was interesting to see how the strikes actually went down. The security apparatus in Egypt is very effective and so it was interesting to see the left and how people were rebelling but at the same time being very quiet about it and playing within the rules, so for me, I’ve always been interested in politics and so experiencing some of that just piqued my interest even more.

Lee:                  Most definitely, most definitely. And were you able to have dialog with folks in Egypt about our political system?

Elizabeth:          Absolutely. And that was one of the most fascinating things. If you asked me about… now I know, I have to know, just because of my graduate studies, but if you had asked me in college about some of the local politics on the ground in Egypt, I would have had a very hard time naming names. When I would meet some of my politically active friends in Egypt, or even once in a while a cab driver would mention a person from the House of Representatives that I’m like- how do you know that? There was really an awareness in Egypt about U.S. domestic politics. And perhaps that’s because it actually does affect U.S. foreign policy towards Egypt, but it was really interesting. And it was really interesting too- through AUC I had the opportunity to volunteer for a couple months as an English teacher at St. Andrew’s Ministry and they basically teach English and computer skills to Kenyan, Sudanese, Eritrean refugees, there’s a couple other countries in there but those are the main countries that the refugees come from. And, the first day I walked in, they had Obama posters everywhere. They were so excited at the prospect of having someone’s who father was actually African becoming the president of the United States, despite our history. And so, it was really interesting. I had students who were, you know, barely at a middle school reading level, but they really wanted to talk about Obama, they wanted to talk about politics. They knew John McCain’s stances versus Obama’s stances on different issues, and so it was just fascinating and made me think- I’ve got learn more about my own politics!

                        It’s interesting too because despite, you know, whatever issues they have with the United States every newspaper had a section that devoted itself to International Politics and it was so much more in depth than some of the newspapers that we have here that are widely read. And so, it wasn’t just things that they had found on the internet, it was available to them, which was just really interesting. And the questions they had, like you were saying, were just fascinating. Things that I hadn’t really thought about, and coming from an outside perspective it was just genius.

Lee:                  So, Elizabeth, if you could pull one highlight from your experience in Egypt, what would it be and why?

Elizabeth:          One of the highlights occurred when I was able to travel with Save the Children to Beni Suef which is a small village in the Minya governorate. I had the opportunity to go around with a couple of doctors and officials from Save the Children and observe some of the classes in progress. And one of the schools we stopped by in, there were a number of girls who were school aged, but out of school. And one of Save the Children’s programs targets these women, hoping to convince their families that it’s important that these girls go to school, and provide them with the tools to get back into school. And we were sitting around and having a conversation; the doctors were asking about some of the healthcare aspects of the program. And they asked me to introduce myself and everyone was pretty surprised that I knew any Arabic and it was just a great opportunity because, I actually mispronounced something and it meant something completely different and everybody kind of laughed. But it made me realize that as somebody who’s interested in politics, how important language is. The fact that I could stand up and say to them, “I’m so excited to be here. I’m so excited for you to share with me what you’re doing, the successes that you’ve had, the struggles that you’ve had.” It really came down to the fact that I could talk to them in their own language.

Lee:                  Well, let’s kind of wrap up by sharing a little bit of advice that you can give to students who are looking at applying this upcoming cycle. What are some things that you wish you would have known before?

Elizabeth:          OK. My first advice would be to start early. I started my application in, I believe, May of my junior year. The application wasn’t due until September, and then I didn’t find out until March, I think. So it was a long process, but starting early really helped me get contacts in Egypt and really start a relationship. It was actually pretty funny, by the time I got there, my contact at Save the Children and I joked that we had already know each other for a year and a half. So starting early was really helpful.

                        In addition, I’m not sure how it worked at other universities, but at Georgetown there’s a fellowship officer, or a fellowship dean, I’m not sure of her official title, but I went to her and I told her about what I wanted to do and she had copies of older proposals that had succeeded. We weren’t allowed to copy them or take them out, but we were allowed to read them and get some ideas. In addition Carolyn Emigh at Georgetown was wonderful because she said, if you write 50 drafts, I will read 50 drafts and I’ll give you comments. So, during that summer, I spent a lot of time refining my proposal and that was really helpful.

Lee:                  That’s an excellent tip. We really do encourage students to use the resources that they have and in a lot of cases those are the Fulbright Program advisors on their campuses and trusted faculty as well.

Elizabeth:          And, it makes sense, too, because these are the people who are going to go to bat for you and help you to get the fellowship. And I also know, at Georgetown, the great part of being involved in the fellowship office is that if you, unfortunately, don’t receive a Fulbright, which I hope everybody does, you have the opportunity sometimes to get funding from the school that will match the grants. So you can still do your project even though it wouldn’t be a Fulbright.

Lee:                  That is really good. So, any other insight that you could offer future Fulbrighters?

Elizabeth:          I know the website is really helpful. A lot of my questions were answered there and I know in Egypt there’s a US-Egypt Fulbright Commission, there’s one in the United States and there’s one in Egypt- there is a website that can connect you to scholars that are already there. And, when I was in Egypt I had a number of people email me just to ask about my experience about what schools were good for doing language study, what NGOs were good for working with in healthcare, education. So really using resources and I know there’s a Fulbright alumni association and so there has to be access to that for people that are applying.

Lee:                  And there is access to it, Elizabeth. In fact, you raised a really good point there. For our listeners who are interested in that information, what they can do is visit our website. We’re at us.fulbrightonline.org. If you look under “Program Resources” you should see a listing of our past Fulbright recipients. As you mentioned before, Elizabeth, our website really is a great resource for information.

                        Well, Elizabeth, that’s all the time that we have today. We really appreciate you taking time out of your day to join us.

Elizabeth:          Thank you, so much, and good luck to everyone who’s applying.

Lee:                  Well, that concludes this episode of My Fulbright Life. Thanks for joining us. Good bye.